A. (Witness points).
Q. Will you point to the person again that you recognized, Witness?
A. (Witness points.)
Q. And who is that, Witness?
A. Dr. Oberhauser.
MR. HARDY: May we request that the record so show that the witness has identified the Defendant Oberhauser?
THE PRESIDENT: The record will so show.
Q. Do you recognize anyone else in that dock, Witness?
Q. Point out who else you recognize, Witness?
A. (Witness points)
Q. Who is that, Witness?
A. This man I saw only once in the camp.
Q. Do you know who that man is, Witness?
A. I know.
Q. Who is that man, Witness?
A. Dr. Fischer.
MR. HARDY: Will the record so show that the witness has properly identified the Defendant Fischer as being at the Ravensbrueck concentration camp?
THE PRESIDENT: The record will so show.
Q. Witness, do you have any other details to tell the Tribunal about your operation?
A. (No answer).
Q. Witness, how many times were you operated on?
Q. When Dr. Oberhauser attended you, was she gentle in her treatment toward you?
A. She was not bad.
Q. Witness, have you ever heard of a person named Binz in the Ravensbrueck concentration camp?
A. I know her very well.
Q. Do you remember what time your friends were called to be operated on in August, of 1943?
Q. Will you kindly tell the Tribunal some of the details there and the names of the persons who were to be operated on?
A. In the spring of 1943 the operations were stopped. We thought that we could live like that till the end of the war. On the 15th of August a policewoman came and called ten girls. When she was asked what for, she answered that we were going to be sent to work. We know very well that all prisoners belonging to our transport were not allowed to work outside the camp. The chief of the block where we were living was forbidden under capital punishment to let us outside the camp. That's why we knew that it was not true. We didn't want to let our comrades out of the block. The policewoman came, and the assistants, the overseers and with Binz. We were driven out of the block into the street. We stood there in line ten at a time and Binz herself read off the names of ten girls. When they refused to go because they were afraid of a new operation and were not willing to undergo a new operation, she herself gave her word of honor that it was not going to be an operation and she told them to follow her.
We remained standing before the block. Then several minutes later our comrades ran to us and told us that SS men have been called for in order to surround them. The camp police arrived and drove out our comrades out of the line. We were locked in the block, The shutter were closed. We were three days without any food and without any fresh air. We were not given parcels that arrived at that time at the camp. The first day the camp commandant and Binz came and made a speech. The camp commander said that there has never been a revolt in the camp and that this revolt must be punished. She believed that we would correct ourselves and that we will never repeat it. If it is going to happen once again, she has SS people with weapons. My comrade who knew German answered that we were not revolting, that we didn't want to be operated because five of us died after tho operation and because six had been shot down after having suffered so much. Then Binz replied: "Death is victory You must suffer for it and you will never get of the camp." Three days later we learned that our comrades had been operated in the bunker.
Q. Now, witness, how many women, approximately, were operated on at Ravensbrueck?
A. At Ravensbrueck were operated 74 women. Many of them had undergone many operations.
Q. Now, you have told us that Five died as a result of the operations, is that correct?
Q. And another six were shot down after the operation, is that correct?
Q. Do you know why those other six were shot, witness?
A. I don't know.
Q. Witness, were any of these victims asked to volunteer for these operations?
Q. Were any of them promised freedom if they would submit to operations?
Q. Did you, when you were operated on, did you object?
A. I could not.
Q. Why not?
A. I was not allowed to talk and our question were not answered.
Q. Do you still suffer any effects as a result of the operation, witness?
Q. Were you ever asked to sign any papers with respect to the operation?
Q. When did you finally leave Ravensbrueck?
A. On the 27th of April, 1945.
Q. Have you ever received any treatment since you have left Ravensbrueck in the last year?
Q. Tell us what treatment you have received.
A. Dr. Gruzan in Warsaw transplanted tendons on my leg.
Q. When did he do that?
A. On the 25th of September 1945.
Q. Do you have to wear any special shoes now, witness?
A. Yes, I must wear them, but I can't afford to buy them.
Q. What are you now doing, witness? Are you working now, or what is your occupation?
A. I am now continuing my studies which I started before the war.
Q. I see. I will ask the witness to identify these pictures.
MR. HARDY: This is Document number NO-1082, a, b, and c. I will pass these up to the Tribunal for your perusal.
BY MR. HARDY:
Q. Were these photographs taken of you in Nurnberg in the last day or two, witness?
Q. Witness, would you kindly take your stocking and shoe off your right leg, please, and will step out to the side and show the Tribunal the results of the operations at Ravensbrueck? (Witness complies.)
That's all, witness, you may sit down.
MR. HARDY: I have no further question an direct examination, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Is there any defense counsel who desires to cross examine this witness?
DR. SEIDL (counsel for defendants Gebhardt, Oberhauser and Fischer): I do not want to cross examine the witness; however, I do not want to confirm that my client admit all the statement which have been made by the witness.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will now be in recess for a few minutes.
(A recess was taken)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
MR. HARDY: If there is no cross examination of this witness by the defense counsel, I propose now to call Dr. Alexander to the witness stand.
THE PRESIDENT: I understood before we recessed there was no cross examination of this witness by defense counsel. Is that correct? Proceed.
DR. LEO ALEXANDER, a witness, was recalled to the stand and testified as follows:
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Alexander is reminded that he is still under oath as a witness in this Court.
DR. ALEXANDER: (Addressing Jadwiga Dzido). Please take off both shoes and both stockings, if you will.
(The witness removed her shoes and stockings.)
DIRECT EXAMINATION--Continued BY MR. HARDY:
Q. Dr. Alexander, have you examined Miss Dzido before today?
A. Yes, sir, I did, on several occasions and during the last three days.
Q. During your examination, did you have x-rays made of the patient's legs?
A. I did, sir.
MR. HARDY: At this time I will introduce document No. nO-1091 which is the x-ray of one witness, Miss Dzido. We will pass two copies to the Tribunal and one copy for the Secretary General.
BY MR. HARDY:
Q. Dr. Alexander, in the course of your diagnosis of these x-rays, will you kindly diagnose this x-ray in English and then repeat in German for the benefit of the defendant?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Doctor, will you identify that x-ray which carried No. NO-1091?
A. Yes. This is the x-ray which included the lower two-thirds of the thigh bone, the femur and the knee joint, and --
MR. HARDY: I offer this x-ray as Prosecution Exhibit No. 215.
BY MR. HARDY:
Q. Do you have any further explanation of this x-ray, Doctor?
A. Yes, sir. I would like to tie it in, if it is agreeable to you, with the chemical examination.
Q. All right, Doctor.
A. The most remarkable finding in Miss Dzido's case is at first marked atrophy of the right leg, including thigh, leg and foot. Will you please stand up, Miss Dzido. (The witness stood). And will you gradually slowly turn around? You can compare here the two legs and you notice the marked atrophy. You see the femur of this bone, of this leg, as compared to tho other. This atrophy is predominantly on the calf but also includes tho lower part of the thigh. Here, the thigh (indicating) as compared with the other side. The atrophy of the thigh is due to the fact that tho lateral flexor group, including the musculus biceps, is absent which leaves the lateral epicondylus and the lateral prominence of the tibia without tho tendinous insertion. You see this tendon here, strong tendon is absent on this side. The lower part of the leg, including the malleolar region and the dorsum of the foot show bluish discoloration, indicating interference with the circulation of the leg, probably due to loss of blood vessels. (The witness now faced the judges). Skin and musculature of the right foot, including the toes, are likewise atrophic. The right leg is furthermore disfigured by two ugly scars, one here and one here.
THE PRESIDENT: One where, Doctor, for the sake of the record.
DR. ALEXANDER: Here. (Indicating).
THE PRESIDENT: I know, but it **st go into the record.
DR. ALEXANDER: Take the lateral one and the medial one. The lateral one begins three inches above the knee, above the lateral epicondylus of the femur running down over the lateral part of the calf until two inches above the lateral malleolus. This scar is sixteen inches long. The width of this scar varies from one-eight inch to one-half inch. The lower part of this scar still snows inflammation and oozes sero-purulent discharge, indicating the presence of a sinus. Two and one-half inches medially to this scar and parallel to it is an equally disfiguring one measuring seven inches in length and partly three-quarters of an inch in width.
There are four small recent neat scars indicative of having healed by first intension over the right food and ankle These are incidental to transplantation of tendons to correct a foot drop. It is referred to as phalphesus (?) which was carried out by Dr. Gruca. There are a number of neurological disturbances in this location. The dorsiflexion of the foot is abolished.
(Addressing Miss Dzido). Would you try to life up your foot like this. (Indicating). Although they are present, in view of the tendon repair, there is no longer any foot drop but the patient cannot lift the foot off the ground to any significant extent. The gait is disturbed by this loss of dorsiflexion of the right foot and lateral rotation of the right foot is likewise abolished.
(Addressing Kiss Dzido). Will you please try to do this, put the foot inward and outward. There is very little lateral rotation possible.
(Addressing Miss Dzino). Would you like to walk first? Would it be desire to have the patient walk?
You notice that during the gait the toes of the right foot remain planted to the ground because of the inadequacy of the lifting movement of the foot which is accomplished by the perineal nerves. These findings indicate paralysis, or loss rather, in this case of the perineal nerve. The right knee joint is diminished and the right ankle jerk is absent. Here you get a very good knee jerk and on this side a less active one. You see here very marked atrophy because of the loss of the whole flexor musculature. There is a good ankle jerk here. I never was able to retain one on the right. Sensory examination showed an anesthesia for fine touch on the dorsum of the right foot, which means the back of the foot. The pressure is felt. The lower two-thirds of the antero-lateral aspect of the right leg, as well as that part of the lateral and posterior aspect of the leg which is lateral to and between the two scars---this part and thus, which shows hyperesthesia for touch and not complete loss. All these areas show marked hyperesthesia for pain. In the medial part of the calf here sensation to touch is normal Thank you very much.
Q. Now, Doctor, I will give you all these x-rays together. There will be an addition to the one that he has, NO 1092, NO 1093 and NO 1094. Would you kindly identify these three x-rays first, Doctor, so that we can offer them as exhibits?
A. Yes. In 1092 is the x-ray of the leg, including the tibia and fibula.
MR. HARDY: That is offered at this time as Prosecution Exhibit No. 216.
DR. ALEXANDER: In 1093 is an x-ray of the right feet.
MR. HARDY: That is offered as Prosecution Exhibit No. 217.
DR. ALEXANDER: And in 1094 is another x-ray of the right foot, with particular attention to the metatarsal bones.
MR. HARDY: Document No. 1094 is offered as Prosecution Exhibit No. 218.
BY MR. HARDY:
Q. Proceed, Doctor.
A. The first of the x-rays, the picture of the femur, shows marked osteoporosis of the lateral epicondylus. This is due to the fact of the removal of muscle and tendon attachments. It is an osteo-porosis of disuse because the normal pull of the tendon has been removed from this epicondylus. The epicondylus is the big prominence of the thigh bone adjacent to the knee joint where the large flexor muscles insert normally. Where that insertion has been abolished here, leaving the epicondylus without soft major tendons. This osteo-porosis is the obvious result of that, and marked osteo-porotic prominence with an arrow in this picture.
Q. Doctor, this x-ray you are referring to now is No. 1092?
A. This is No. 1091. The arrow points to the osteoporotic atrophy of the tibia. Number 1092 is the x-ray of the leg. It shows the fibula which is the smaller of the two Larger banes of the leg, about in the middle between the area just mentioned under the bracket called "B". On the side, looking toward the tibia is the osteoperiostitis of the periosteum. This group of marks are particularly severe in the smaller area which I have marked with the bracket "A" indicates a smaller area of the shaft of the tibia within the larger area of the disturbance marked as "B". This alteration is indicating and consists of an ordinary inactive Coxa, which in view of the osteoperiostitis of the periosteum was probably an osteomyelitis process. However, there is no active osteomyelitis at the present examination of the right foot, In pictures 1093 and 1094, it shows arthritic changes of the cuniform navicula joints with narrowing of the joint spaces and increased marginal sclerosis. This has been marked in the x-ray with an arrow pointing to the joint. The other prints are the same. The prints have come out too dark, but it shows the condition clearly in the film.
This arthritis is due to the immobilization of the right foot. Secondary to the muscles and especially the paralysis of the perineal nerve. It is evidentally arthritis of an immobilization nature which one sees also by inspection of the patients foot.
Q. Doctor, can you determine from your examination -
A. (Interposing) 1094, have I mentioned it shows the same as 1093 in a slightly different exposure. The marks are the same pointing to the most marked arthritis between the cuniform navicular joints.
Q. Doctor, in your opinion, from your examination of this patient can you determine what was the purpose of the experiment?
A. It appears that in this experiment a highly infectious agent was implanted, probably without the addition of a bacteria static agent such as sulfanilaide, and for that reason the infection got out of hand and became very extensive.
Q. Do you mean, Doctor, it is highly possible this patient could have been considered as one of the control groups?
A. Yes, probably one of the control group. The two previous patients both mentioned white powder which has been used in their wounds, which was probably one of the sulfanilaides, and while this patient as well as the subsequent patient, knew of no use of the white powder. Therefore, I assume that they may be of the control group. They have bean injected or implanted with the bacteria culture without the subsequent use of sulfanilaide. From the general appearance, it is suggestive of a Streptococcus in this case. The way it is spread makes it likely, and the fact that the spread is mostly lengthwise.
Q. Could you say, Doctor, the reason for the spread in this case was because of the lack of treatment, where as the other patients had been treated after being operated on, is that correct?
A. Presumably. The other patients were given sulfanilaide in the wounds sometime after the wounds were made; presumably to test the efficiency of the use of sulfanilaide on the battle field such as we started to do it in the United States Army.
Q. Now, Doctor, you, as a psychiatrist, can you say what psychological effect these operations had on the patients?
A. I think that it was that of deep humiliation which was the most remarkable reaction in all these women. I would say it was rather a resentment against humiliation. The use of the name "guinea pig" -- they are all high spirited girls. They were all soldiers. This girl is of a superior intelligent a student of pharmacy, a woman of culture, and speaks very good English which she feels is not good enough to testify in it. This whole treatment caused a deep humiliation, and. on the other hand, it also aroused a fighting spirit, and the remarkable thing is that this prisoner showed how she rebelled against this treatment. She was one of a group which was forcibly operated on. Here is a woman who fought like a wild cat in a concentration camp against this treatment, and who had to be held down by to or more SS men.
Q Thank you Doctor.
MR. HARDY: I have no further questions to put to Doctor Alexander, at this time, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Do any of tho defense counsel desire to cross examine Doctor Alexander?
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY DR. SEIDL:
Q Only a few questions, Doctor Alexander. Are you able to state exactly which scars came from the, transplantation in 1945 in Warsaw?
A. Yes. In 1945, the operation involved two things: Transplantation of the tendons. You can still recognize those wounds because the tissues still show. That was done to lift the foot up. This girl has a marked loot drop, more marked than the first witness and these tendons lift the foot up, and fixed it in that position (indicating). In addition, the witness told me that the upper end of the scar here was treated cosmetically. The main scar from the knee down to here, was not touched, and specifically the open side was not touched.
Q. Is it possible that to biceps is lacking because it was used in this transplantation in Warsaw?
A. I did not obtain that history. I can ask here through the interpreter.
DR. ALEXANDER: Will you please ask the patient these questions:
DR. ALEXANDER: Do you feel this tendon here, the big tendon on the side?
MISS DZIDO: No.
DR. ALEXANDER: Here.
MISS DZIDO: Yes.
DR. ALEXANDER: Now, on this side, do you remember whether you still had this tendon when Doctor Gruzer operated on you in Warsaw?
MISS DZIDO: No.
DR. ALEXANDER: It is very unlikely that one would use a bicep tendon for transplantation. It is more likely that the tendon was snipped off during the acute state of the infection.
Q. That is your assumption?
Q. Now something else, you are of the opinion apparently that this big scar on the back of the calf was necessary in order to combat the gangrene surgically? -854
A. I do not know. The case looks to me like streptococcus. The way it is distributed -- for gasbrand it as not complete enough. Of course it is difficult to distinguish that but the next patient you see a typical gas bacillus scar and it looks different than this one. This looks like streptococcus, but it is probable that one or two cuts were made in order to control the infection surgically.
Q. Do you know Doctor whether the patient was treated with sulfanilaide?
A. No, the only thing is she is one of two patients who did not mention white powder. That is all I know.
DR. SIEDL: I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Any further questions by the counsel for the defense?
There being no further questions the witness is excused.
MR. HARDY: The prosecution request that the witness Maria Kusmierczuk be called to the stand at this time.
THE PRESIDENT: The Marshall will summon the witness Maria Kusmierczuk.
THE PRESIDENT: I remind the interpreter that he has been sworn in this cause.
THE INTERPRETER: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: You will now administer the oath to the witness.
MARIA KUSMIERCZUK, a witness, took the stand and testified through an interpreter as follows:
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. The witness will state her name.
A. Maria Kusmierczuk.
Q. Raise your right hand and repeat:
I swear that the evidence I shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help me God.
(The witness repeated the oath).
THE PRESIDENT: The witness may be seated.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. McHANEY:
Q. Will you state your name, please?
A. Maria Kusmierczuk.
Q. Your last name is spelled K-u-s-m-i-e-r-c-z-u-k?
Q. You were born on 1 January, 1920, at Jagerndorf.
Q. You are a citizen of Poland?
A. Yes I am.
Q. Have you come here voluntarily to testify?
Q. What is your present home address?
A. Raciborska Street 1.
Q. What education have you received?
A. I've finished the secondary school; and I am a student of the University.
Q. Have you studied medicine?
A. Yes, I am studying medicine.
Q. Were you studying medicine at the University in Vilna before the war broke out?
A. Yes, I was in Vilna. I was studying mathematics and nature at the University of Vilna.
Q. You are now studying medicine at the University in Odansk?
Q. Were you working in the underground movement in 1940?
Q. Where was this.
Q. Were you ultimately arrested for your activity in the underground?
Q. What were you doing in the Polish underground?
A. I was messenger; and I was assigned to the chief headquarters.
Q. Were you tried by a court after you were arrested?
A. I have never been tried by a court.
Q. What was done with you after your arrest?
A. I was arrested by the Gestapo and then put into the prison in Zamoshtsh where I was for ten days. During those ten days I was interrogated by the Gestapo. Then I was put in the prison in Lublin, where I stayed until the 23rd of October 1941.
Q. What happened then?
A. Then I was sent to the concentration camp Ravensbrueck.
Q. What work did you do at Ravensbrueck?
A. I did the usual physical work. Then I worked in the workshop putting soles on shoes. I worked in this workshop until I was taken for the operation.
Q. When was that?
A. On the 7th of October, 1941.
Q. 1941 or 1942?
Q. Were other girls taken with you at the same time to be operated on?
A. Yes. In the hospital it turned out that there were also other girls taken at the same time.
Q. Will you explain to the Tribunal how you came to be selected for this operation and what happened during the course of it?
A. On the 7th of October when I was sleeping, I suddenly heard my name called, my number called. A police woman came; took me; and didn't tell me where I was going. Following her, I came ......../..... to the hospital.
I discovered in the hospital that there were eleven other girls who had to disrobe and were examined by Dr. Oberhauser. After the examination we were put to bed. A German nurse shaved our right legs. Then we were given injections which stunned us. Then I remember that I was put on a hospital cot and taken to the operating room. There I saw Dr. Schiedlauski and Dr. Rosenthal, who gave me the second injection. I remember that I had to count to twelve; and then I don't remember anything else.
Then I remember the moment when I was again in the hospital room. My comrades were lying in the same room. I felt that my leg was bandaged and I couldn't move it; and I felt severe pain. During the next few days I developed high temperature. I remember that my leg was bandaged. I remember in the first days that Oberhauser used to come each day and give me injections. Then my leg was bandaged. They used to take me to the dressing room. I was put up on a dressing table. A sheet was put over my eyes. I felt only that the bandage was removed and I felt an inhuman pain. I tried not to scream in order to see what happened to my leg. I remember that it felt as if somebody would cut off something on my leg.
Dressings were changed twice a week, if my memory serves me well. During the next changes of dressings when my temperature was not so high, I noticed that the dressings were made by the doctor whose name, as I learned it afterwards, was Dr. Fischer. I know also that for a long time the dressing were made by Dr. Fischer, because when pus drained from my leg and the air was foul with odor, I asked that my dressings might be changed; and I was told that I must wait until Dr. Fischer arrived.
I remember also the fact that three weeks after my operation I and all my comrades were taken cut of the room and carried into the operating room. Then I was lying in a separate room with the bandage taken off on a high table. After two hours of my lying on this table and looking at my leg, that made a very deep impression on me because I saw in a flash even pieces of my bone.
The doctors came. In the front walked a doctor, very stout and tall, wit spectacles. He took a hammer-like instrument and tapped the bone in my leg. I tried to look at this man and keep his face in my mind. I know that this man was Prof. Gebhardt. -859
Q. Witness, do you think that you would remember this man's face today?
A. I think so, but I must look before.
Q. Will you please get up and walk over to the defendants' dock and see if you recognize this man Gebhardt as being there?
(Witness walking to dock.)
Q. Will you point to him, please?
(Witness pointing to Defendant Gebhardt.)
Q. Thank you. And will you now point out Oberhauser?
(Witness pointing to Defendant Oberhauser.)
Q. And Fischer?
(Witness pointing to Defendant Fischer.)
Q. Thank you. Will you sit down now.
MR.McHANEY: I would like for tho record to show that the witness properly identified the Defendants Gebhardt, Oberhauser and Fischer.
THE PRESIDENT: The record will so show.
BY MR. McHANEY:
Q. Now, Witness, when did you leave the hospital after this operation on the 7th October 1942?
A. My wound was so big that I had to stay in the hospital about half a year. At the beginning of the month of April 1943 I left the hospital wearing crutches.
Q. Now, your wound was not healed then at that time?
THE INTERPRETER: Will you kindly repeat the question?
Q. Your wound was not healed then when you left the hospital?
A. My wound was not healed when I left the hospital.
Q. Were you able to work?
A. I was not able to work and I was not able even to walk. I stayed in the block till the 1st of September 1943. On the 1st of September 1943 I went again to the hospital because pus was draining from my wound and the wound was not healed yet. I stayed in the hospital about half a year wit hour being able to get up.
Q. That was until early 1944 that you remained in the hospital?
A. I left the hospital in February 1944. I don't remember the exact date; but the wound was not healed yet and there was a small wound from which pus drained. On the 15th of September Dr. Treitel, to speak of the healing of my leg, grafted the skin taken off my thigh on to the wound. I stayed in the hospital till February 1944 but when I returned back to the block I could not walk well. My leg was entirely healed at the end of June 1944.
Q. Now did this skin grafting operation take place on September 15, 1943?
Q. Now, going back to the original operation, when did you first know that an operation was to be performed on you?
A. When I was put to bed and my legs were shaved, then I thought that I would undergo an operation.
Q. Did you ask them what they were going to do to you?
A. No, I didn't ask.
Q. Why not?
A. Because it was impossible to ask anything in the concentration camp. We used to get, as answers to our questions: "Halt's Maul" -- shut up.
Q. Were you in good health at the time of this operation?
A. I was quite healthy, only under-nourished and exhausted because of hunger reigning in the camp.
Q. Did you ever make any protest against this operation?
A. I protested against operations, but after my own operation when living conditions in camp allowed me to do it.
Q. They did not ask you to consent to this operation before you were operated on, did they?
A. I was not asked anything by anybody. When I was taken to the hospital I was sure that I was going to be shot down, because I remember that all my comrades belonging to the same transport who had boon shot down were taken out of the blocks in the same way.
Q. Now, do you know approximately how many women were operated on experimentally at Ravensbrueck while you were there?
A. Yes, I remember quite well. Seventy-five Polish women were operated.
Q. And did any of them die as a result of these operations?
A. Yes. I remember quite well that five of my comrades who had been operated on died. After my operation two of my comrades died. One was lying near me in the hospital and the second was in the same room. The name of the first was Krokopsky Kasimira, and the second Ketzel Sofia. Besides died Bruce Alsky, Evinov Itchinila and Kruska.
Q. Now, were you women who were subjected to these operations known in the camp as "guinea pigs"?
A. Yes, the very well known name was "guinea pigs" to describe us.
Q. Now just before the end of the war, did they make -- did the Germans in Ravensbrueck make any effort to gather together all of you so-called guinea pigs?
A. Yes. At the beginning of the year 1944 all operated women were put into one block. On the 4th of February 1945 I remember that the chief of the block road off our names written down on the list. He told us that we were not allowed to leave the block the next day. We knew that this procedure on such a list meant execution and we knew that we would probably be executed because we knew that six of our comrades had been shot down before.